Episode 6: How to Date Sober


Dating, one of the biggest arch-nemesis of all sober people. We all want to meet that special someone, but it's not always easy without a little liquid courage. However, it's difficult trying to date in Hollywood where people meet at bars and casual recreational drug use is common.

Kaila and Kiki tell detailed stores about their experiences dating under the influence and off the sauce. They also dive into what it was like dating while touring on the road in a rock band internationally and how tricky it was to stick to sobriety.

In this episode:

  • Dating while touring in a rock band: the trials and tribulations of a newly sober musician
  • Dating a bartender sober
  • Tips on how to date when you're newly sober
  • Activities to do on a first date for a new sober you


Kaila: Hey it's Kaila and Kiki, and we are back again with this week's episode for From Hell to Wellness. Today we are talking about sober dating. This is definitely a topic that people have requested for us to speak on, because dating can be tough sober, you know meeting for drinks and a cocktail is a common way to get started.

Kiki: I know that I have definitely done my share of drunk dating. In fact, I have never actually dated sober, like ever I have always been completely hammered. I think it's just like dealing with people you know.

Kaila: In general?

Kiki: Yes, like you are nervous and you are like I feel like I am a better person when I am drunk or something like that.

Kaila: Well it gives you this liquid courage and it gives you this confidence to make people look prettier and you feel awesome.

Kiki: It's great, it's great but then you wake up and you are like oh fuck.

Kaila: And I think the reason it's better to date sober is you make a lot of choices -better choices in general. I mean there's definitely been kind of mistaken choices I have made when I was not sober that I wouldn't have absolutely have made otherwise. So we're going to go over some of our past dating experiences, sober and not sober and then dive into some tips on how to date sober.

I have a story I guess from when I was newly sober. Newish Sober, I think with sobriety they count you as a new, like their whole first year you are considered as a newcomer because that's how long it takes you to just get situated. And I think even until like 5 years of sobriety it's not until like you have built a firm foundation. So I was newly sober and we had just finished our Ohio tour, which was really hellish for me.

But we got back to the states, and I remember we got this email from Bucky, I mean this email that I forwarded to Bucky from our tour manager. And they were asking about us performing in Immokalee at the Hard Rock Cafe, which was the most exciting thing ever, but I didn't get my hopes up too much because we had a kind of like tour.

Kiki: Fallout, that was devastating.

Kaila: They take us on dates and everything but just tour date, and we were totally excited to go and looking to getting visa and stuff and it just completely ghosted, which is what happened a lot in the music industry. I don't consider myself going on tour until I am on the Airplane. I feel like anything could happen before then.

Kiki: I learned that from you too, and especially in the music industry, that was one of the best piece of advice you gave me, and is to kind of like not getting your hopes up too much because things, you know I was young and I was like yeah, and then things would just die and you are like oh, but yes.

Kaila: So I remember we got the proceedings going and started booking it, and then there was this huge issue because Mickey desperately wanted to go with us and he did not have a passport, and you and Jamie did not want him to come. Oh my God Mickey, shout outs to Mickey hopefully he's okay with us talking about that.

Kiki: We should talk to him.

Kaila: We should have him on the episode because he probably sees the tour, you know we all have our different perspectives of the Ohioan tour and I am sure he saw it a different way. Mickey was a crazy alcoholic but he was like an amazing tour manager somehow, and he was only like 21 or something right.

Kiki: He was a child.

Kaila: Yes, he was a child. I loved Mickey but like you didn't like him so much.

Kiki: You know I had a more different perception of it, because I had only what Jamie told me and I am very protective over my girlfriend. So immediately when she was mad I was mad with that reason, and I am always like that and then it usually ends up and I am like oh I guess he wasn't really that bad when I think about it.

Kaila: Yes, he was crazy on tour. The funniest thing happen one day Hugo brought out the weed chocolate or what was it - it was the one night that Mickey was silent.

Kiki: Oh my God that's fucking funny.

Kaila: He curled up into a ball and like was just silent.

Kiki: Okay I ate some of that weed chocolate no joke. That stuff is fucked up out of this world. I remember we were doing - I was sleeping in the back of the van and then we were in Raw together, remember I was still doing Raw. And then Kaila like in the distance it felt like you were miles away, and I take in the chocolate to go to sleep.

Kaila: And I was like how many bookings do you have?

Kiki: Yeah, and you were like oh did you do your Raw - it was like did you do your Raw stuff? And I was like yes, and it was like figure eights, my vision was in figure eights I was fucking na-related, oh my God.

Kaila: That was amazing. I have never taken weed chocolate thank God. Weed itself is horrifying to me so I can't even imagine. So yes, Mickey was desperate to go on that tour, and I remember I went with him somewhere to like - he couldn't find his birth certificate or he couldn't get it after all or something. So he ultimately couldn't go on the tour, so we had to find this other tour manager that Hugo recommended.

Kiki: He was useless.

Kaila: Okay so newly sober you kind of make poor decisions, and I am so not into younger guys today, but I kind of had a crush on this dude and he was way younger than me, but that guy was a good-looking guy.

Kiki: He was in our music video, you must go and check that out.

Kaila: It's fun I don't give a shit because I don't have a crush on him at all any longer. But one thing he had a cat, a Bengal cat. And he said he would take it for a walk and I was like oh cat guy on top of everything. So anyway I don't even know where this dude is today so I don't think it matters.

Kiki: I don't even remember his name.

Kaila: Yes, that's crazy I don't even remember his name, but we stayed with him for how long - a month-and-a-half?

Kiki: Yes, it was a little longer than a month.

Kaila: Every single day we saw him and we don't remember his name.

Kiki: Josh - he looks like?

Kaila: He could be a Josh right. But anyways I had this inappropriate crush on him and I was so stupid. So I had this crush on him, so I proceeded to completely ignore him and make no eye contact with him because that's like - newly sober I was just so uncomfortable in my skin and I didn't how to act, because you know before that you have drugs and alcohol and you are like kind of looser and more comfortable, but I was so uncomfortable and so he hated me.

Kiki: No.

Kaila: He did not like me because I fucking just pretended like he didn't exist; it was so strange.

Kiki: Oh my gosh and that's so crazy, like as we are doing this podcast I'm learning that - I didn't know that you were newly sober. I thought you had been sober for years like at that point for some reason.

Kaila: Well I was what they call an intermittent drinker user person. So I was never using - well I was using it every day like back in my 20s, but by the time you met me it was only like once in a while.

Kiki: But it was still enough to be pretty impacting?

Kaila: It was enough yes, I think for me I have to be 100% sober to be okay, like for me to have any kind of presence or any kind of spiritual connection thing. I can't be doing anything or else it completely disconnected. There is a couple of times I relapsed legitimately, where I just completely became like, I mean I didn't even go crazy once I relapse on Vicodin, and then like everything fell apart in my life.

So I am just a person who needs to be completely sober. But yes, being newly sober and I mean it wasn't the worst circumstance, but Immokalee was so difficult, I mean Immokalee was magical in so many ways, but it was so difficult because we are playing how long, like 3 hours a night or something. Three 50-minute sets back to back.

Kiki: Back-to-back, we had 15 minute breaks my friends, 15 minutes breaks in between and then we just go and bust our asses. And get this we are not a wedding band, we are not professionally trained like you know USC graduate musicians. We are fucking girls in a band and we play rock and we perform on stage, it's not a background music type.

Kaila: Yes, it was so stressful. I mean there were nights where I call Bucky and I was like I don't know if I can do this - just like terrible fear and just endurance wise, like I wasn't physically in shape to do, or like professionally trained as a singer to sing that long, it was so difficult.

Kiki: I mean now that I look back on it, people that I know in the music industry like that's not normal. And we were pushed in like basically in a pit of wolves in terms of musician, because we had only been on one tour before.

Kaila: Oh my God it was a shitshow though. Immokalee I don't think we were great. There were sound issues because we didn't know about sound, and there's like apparently sound issues that were taking place that were out of our control. So there was a lot of issues, but there are a lot of hot guys in Immokalee.

Kiki: On the bright side.

Kaila: So I love Immokalee, I really fell in love with Immokalee during that trip. Oh my God, okay so there's one time we discovered a duck place. So we had these apartment, in Immokalee we had two separate apartments and they each had three bedrooms each.

Kiki: It's like Airbnb?

Kaila: Yes, it was really cool and we each had our own bedrooms. One of us was in one building, me Kiki and Jamie were in one and then everybody else - our tour manager and our sound guy Cat and Karen. Karen is sober right?

Kiki: I don't know anything about her.

Kaila: She's not sober she drinks but she's completely controlled in her drinking and she doesn't drink that much, but they were in the other rooms. So we would often go off exploring by ourselves and we discovered this duck place, I mean we love duck to begin with.

Kiki: We love duck. It's the Chinese side in me and your Taiwanese side, we are duck fans.

Kaila: But this duck was not like any duck you have ever - I don't know if they were giving them like, or maybe they are just naturally fed but this duck was so fat, it's the fattest ducks ever.

Kiki: [11:06] like a dark meat fans. If you are a white meat fan we can't talk.

Kaila: Yes, you are just like retarded.

Kiki: Although I like white men meat, that's the only white meat I will deal with.

Kaila: So anyways duck, this duck was the most, I mean I still never had such duck before. I have never encountered a duck even close to as delicious as that duck. So I think we ordered a whole duck one night - two and we kept it a secret because we didn't want to share the duck.

Kiki: They were like $8 too each.

Kaila: Oh my God and we ate it all.

Kiki: I ate it with my fucking hands like a freaking animal but it was so good.

Kaila: Yes, it was amazing. I mean the food in Immokalee was so good.

Kiki: Do you remember that noodle place that we stopped into. It was like a whole new wall, like Mom with like couple tables and like we didn't really know what the heck I just push something - oh my God those noodles were so good.

Kaila: The noodles are so good but I wish we had more time. Here's the thing when you are traveling as a band and touring. I didn't spend as much time exploring as I could have, because on the night we are still performing and you know you are having jet lag and all of that. I was just like mentally preparing myself the entire day. So the days we would explore, but we were playing like 5 days a week right?

Kiki: We were on like 6 days a week. We were on 6 days a week it was fucking nuts.

Kaila: The only days where I could go out and explore, where like kind of the completely free day. Every other day I was like crying inside - but also the Hard Rock Immokalee fed us generally. Before we would get out of our hotel, check in and we would all grab the bus over to the Hard Rock Immokalee, and then we would get there an hour early and order off the menu, and it was a delicious menu.

Kiki: Did you go in the steaks?

Kaila: I don't think I go to steak, you know you can't eat like a heavy ass meal before you go on stage, so I wasn't eating anything crazy.

Kiki: I never got a steak either. And then they cut us off from steak remember, Hugo - do you remember?

Kaila: I don't remember that at all.

Kiki: Hugo ordered so many steaks - he's the sound guy, oh my gosh and he was like, we love Hugo but he was, he ordered so many steaks and then they were like we can't order any more steaks [13:49] or they were saying that we can't order steaks because we probably ordered like $200 worth of steaks.

Kaila: Oh my God, don't give a band free reign of anything because they are going to take advantage of it. So anyway it's like we'd be performing on stage and you know I was on stage for like 3 hours, so throughout our distress I could still notice like wow there's a cute guy sitting there in that corner.

Kiki: Oh my God I wish I looked up. I was like trying to look at my guitar the whole time I didn't see.

Kaila: But the guys were so good looking in there. I remember one night there was like this cute guy sitting in the front row, tall and like blond with kind of curly hair, and him and his friends were feeling the performance, I was like what a cute guy. And then afterwards I went and did my thing and then I came back to the bar and Kath was talking to him. I remember this distinctly; I was like why was he wearing sandals because he's always wearing sandals.

Kiki: That is a big No-No but also I guess if he's cute it's okay.

Kaila: He's very-very cute and he was like some kind of businessman. I forgot what they did, he did something evil where he would like come into big companies and break them apart, you know buy big company and then like break them into parts and then sell the pieces.

Kiki: Oh like a business consultant or something?

Kaila: Something like that, I am not sure what his job title was but he lived in Hong Kong, and basically all kind of expats come over to Immokalee to party, because Immokalee is like the Vegas. It's actually way crazier than Vegas. I forgot the figures that Immokalee does like ten times the revenue, or something way more because they are Chinese people they've got money.

Kiki: They have real money that's no joke.

Kaila: So anyway this guy became Kath's boyfriend, and I don't like a lot of Kath's boyfriend but I really like this guy he's a sweet guy. He even came to stay with her for like a week or two in LA and we went out to dinner.

Kiki: Oh he is really sweet. If you are out there Kath's ex you are very sweet.

Kaila: His name we don't remember because we don't remember anybody's name.

Kiki: I don't know his name oh my God.

Kaila: But hey we don't live with them for a month and not remember his name. Okay but then one night there was I don't remember - there was like some club or nightclub near our, so we are playing at like the cafe or something.

Kiki: Now I remember oh my God.

Kaila: Was that inside the Hard Rock?

Kiki: So it's a huge [16:23] Hotel huge, huge like we had to look all of our gear every freaking day to go down that, I remember that walk was so dreadful, but there's the Hard Rock restaurant at hotel in the casino areas where we played. And then there was a nightclub you are right. Oh my God now I fucking remember.

Kaila: Do you remember the guy?

Kiki: I do I now remember. When you said nightclub it clicked and I remember the room in blue and like a lot of white, I was just always drunk. Oh my God and you didn't take a photo with him. I remember he was smoking hot.

Kaila: Smoking hot but he didn't know, he's one of those guys who like does - like our tour manager knew he was hot, like he had that swag about him, but this dude like didn't really know, like maybe he knew but he didn't act like a hot guy he was just like so sweet and so nice.

Kiki: Did you talk to him; how did you find him?

Kaila: Well you were my wing person so it's very easy to talk to a bartender, he was a bartender, so it's very easy to talk to a bartender you just go up there and order a drink. And you know we kind of talked and obviously it came up that we were playing at the nearby show so it's just a hop skip away. And then we started talking and talking - anyway and then one night he came over but I think we hang out a couple of nights there because we would come as a whole group.

Not just with him and he's obviously busy working and stuff, and he was noticeably gorgeous so there are always girl’s kind of flock around him. And then somehow at some point we exchange phone numbers, but then like one night obviously he like came surprised to see our show - oh my God that show I don't know what happened but we bonded that night just like that.

So I mean he was like oh, do you know how when you do a bad show afterwards and you see the people and they are like, oh great - but you know and we all know and it's that, but I feel like I considerably lost interest after that, but I guess nothing ever really happened with that but he was so hot. There were just hot guys everywhere in Immokalee, but I was just acting sober awkward because I was newly sober. One night I remember; oh my God I don't know if you remember one night. I think that was the same night he came to see our show; the Hard Rock executives came to see our show.

Kiki: Yes, I do remember that, that was a bad show.

Kaila: It was a really bad show, why do they come?

Kiki: I don't know why.

Kaila: Was our show bad because we knew they were coming?

Kiki: I honestly don't remember, but I just remember that it ended bad and it was not good. I think we just fucked up a lot on stage.

Kaila: Like literally the Hard Rock executive.

Kiki: From all over the fucking world, that was our ticket into a US Hard Rock tour.

Kaila: Which never happened.

Kiki: It never happens no. They didn't even stay; remember they didn't even stay they just say hi. That was so bad but those are moments that are like the defending, you know like it's important to have that, like if you are so successful your whole life and you will never know but that was brutal. I can't believe that guy came to the show.

Kaila: He did, and then I think afterwards we went back with him to grab a drink, and then the whole time we were hanging out with him I was like taking drinks and passing it to somebody else and you know throwing it over my shoulder or whatever, but like he handed me a shot - he knew he was on to me and I think bartenders know. And he watched me drink that shot, so I swallowed it - I can't remember if I drink it, I think I drank it because he was watching me. So there was no way for me to spit it out anywhere so I drink it. So later on I told my sponsor and she's like you have got to start your time over.

Kiki: But you are not even an alcoholic, like you don't even eat or drink alcohol.

Kaila: But alcoholics are hard-core, like if you take an Ambien that is breaking your sobriety. There is some alcoholics, and this I don't subscribe to, but they are like you are not sober if you are taking antidepressants.

Kiki: That's fucked up that's not cool, it's like messing with people's medication.

Kaila: Yes, you are not a doctor. I mean there is literally a story of some situation where a guy was told by his sponsors to get off his antidepressant and he killed himself.

Kiki: You see that is like little disclaimer folks. If you are being prescribed by your doctor by something you should definitely take it.

Kaila: Do not listen to non-medical people for advice, like I don't care if they are a sponsor. I actually had a sponsor and I take Prozac, and I have taken it for many, many years. And here's the thing, like if you are diabetic, you don't say well I am going to wean myself off my insulin or whatever. So my sponsor, and she is a very well-meaning like she had good intentions. And she was like if you are working your AA program right you wouldn't need it, like you need to come off that I can't sponsor you if you are on that. So I started to wean myself off of it.

Kiki: What happened?

Kaila: First I take 20 milligrams and then I went down to 10 milligrams, and I was like well this is easy I don't feel any difference. And I was dating a new guy at the time of my last boyfriend so I was like on a high. So I was like well this is so easy, I came down to five and then I was like wow this is no problem like I am just going to come down slowly.

And then I came down to five and then around Peru, we went to Peru and right after that I fell into like a deep, deep depression. So then I went back on it and I was like I am not working with this lady anymore, and that's criminal for her to say that I think because like you know I am not - I didn't get suicidal or anything like that, but what if I was like what if I was a person. So I really, really - if you are taking antidepressant and you are sober it's okay. There is actually a lot of us out there and don't let the hard-core people tell you otherwise. So anyways that was Immokalee but Immokalee was difficult.

Kiki: Wait, so did you keep talking to the guy. I want to know more about this guy?

Kaila: Well no, I think it was one night when he got off of work and he was like well come and hang out with us, and then I was like. It was like 11 and I was like it's too late, bedtime. I'm sorry like you have got to ask me out during regular hours. There is this one time, okay when I was like not sober and dating anything goes, like I would just let. I am like a rules-girl I am like you have got to ask me out 3 days in advance, you have got to take me out to dinner and it's got to be all appropriate.

But I remember this one time I was dating this guy and I met him while rolling, it was like my friends [23:47] good-looking dude, but we met while doing drugs. And what happened I think after that - after that night he asked me out on a date, it was a proper date we were going to go out to dinner and stuff. And then 7 o'clock rolls and he's supposed to come and pick me up, nothing and I text him nothing. 7:30 to 8 o'clock nothing, nothing and I am like dude this guy just like flake on me completely. And then finally at 9 he calls me and he's like oh my God I overslept.

Kiki: PM?

Kaila: Yes, and he was like can we go to desert or something and I said yes, which would never fly now I would be like no, but like I went out with him, but anyway it didn't work out for various other reasons - by the way this guy is in prison now. It's a whole other story, it's not like he was some gangster. It's crazy he went to prison, but never mind I can't even get into this story.

Kiki: Oh my God I have to know.

Kaila: He later went to prison for kidnapping - I don't really know the story so it's really hard for me to tell, but like somebody was threatening his dad's business or something. So then he took those people and like hurt - he took those people in a car and like threaten them, and then those people accused him of kidnapping and then now he's in prison for many years for that. I don't know this story is really horrible.

Kiki: That is really interesting because you never know like, you never know someone's situation like necessarily, even if someone does go to prison they may not necessarily be a bad person, maybe just be protecting their dad.

Kaila: He definitely did something but he may be like got more than he deserves. But like that's not the first guy I have dated who's went to prison. So I went to, this is back in high school. So I went to a homecoming with this guy and really good-looking guy but we didn't click.

Kiki: Do you have a picture?

Kaila: No, it's so sad because like I have this photo album with all of these photos and it got lost and some point. And this is back before people uploaded things to the web, so the physical copy is literally all I had. There was no digital like this is just when [26:20] was starting. So these photos don't exist anymore unless somebody that I know has it let me know.

But anyway I went out with this guy and it didn't work out, and then he started dating this girl that I thought was super ugly. So I started talking tons of shit about her and him to like a mutual friend. And then he found out about it and then he like called me and talk all of this shit to me directly and whatever, whatever. And then a couple of years later - he was like this wannabe gangster kid like some Asian guys are. And he like took a gun somewhere and he fired it at someone or shot someone or something, so he was in prison for a long time. Anyway two guys who went to prison in my past. Both Asian and from like very normal families.

Kiki: That's very interesting.

Kaila: But anyways, so we were done with Immokalee but maybe we will get into it another day. But I just want to talk about how awesome Immokalee is as a travel destination. The food is out of control because the Portuguese mixed with the Chinese food, nothing like that anywhere else. So it's definitely a huge foodie destination. Immokalee is also just a Party City too if you want that as an option, there is multiple Casinos. We especially recommend the Hard Rock Immokalee it has a gorgeous pool - we took photos in that.

Kiki: We actually had our original icon From Hell to Wellness was taken in that pool, and then unfortunately that was too before like cameras were really great. So we ended up taking it down because the DPI on that was terrible so we had a different one.

Kaila: Yes, we will put that photo down there. And then next up we headed over to the Hard Rock Penang and that was totally a different vibe. I am glad we didn't go to the Hard Rock Immokalee first, because as awesome as it was, the Hard Rock Penang was next level it was like a luxury resort and we had our own hotel rooms. It was like I don't even know; it was like a call - it's like the longest pool.

Kiki: So fucking crazy oh my God that was the best - but then I got food poisoning, you got it too right?

Kaila: Well I was like the Three Bears like you ate most of it.

Kiki: Jamie was mamma bear and you were baby bear.

Kaila: And Karen ate it too.

Kiki: Oh Karen was like a new-born bear.

Kaila: Yes, you always get food poisoning.

Kiki: I do, my mom genetically has really bad stomach and my dad has an iron stomach, and I always get freaking food poisoning, so yes it was terrible, terrible.

Kaila: Yes, that was pretty hellish, we then proceeded to have to move in transit while you were super sick.

Kiki: Do you remember that?

Kaila: That was really difficult even for me sober.

Kiki: So you got food poisoning whilst transiting?

Kaila: I was sober but it was just a difficult experience. We didn't know what hotel we were going to stay at and when we got - I don't know if you remember this, when our group landed, because we needed to go from Penang back to Hong Kong, and then when we landed in Hong Kong we had like a day before our flight.

Kiki: I had to rent a hotel.

Kaila: Yes, so we just stay. This was a discussion that we got our baggage and we sat there for like 30 minutes, and we were like should we just sleep here or should we get a hotel room and we couldn't decide. And it took us a while to make the decision - finally we decided to all get one hotel room.

Kiki: I think I bought it that night because I was so desperate, me and Jamie were both.

Kaila: There was like seven of us all in one hotel room.

Kiki: And my spouse Tom join us too - was he in our room, but you guys went in and explore though right?

Kaila: Yes, I think several people never slept in the room, I don't remember what I did.

Kiki: Me and Jamie were dying we were so sick.

Kaila: Yes, we went out to explore. That was definitely fun. But I remember I guess there was a period of time when I was dating when I only dated on Vicodin. Vicodin for dating is good, I recommend it if you are a not sober person. I think nowadays being sober I am a pretty good first date because I am like really - do you know what makes you a great conversationalist, because I get that compliment sometimes. It's just like shut up and let the other person talk, and then they think you are a great conversationalist because they get to talk the whole time.

Kiki: Oh my Gosh, whenever I give like my friends will ask me for any type of dating advice. You just ask the people questions.

Kaila: Because people love to talk about themselves.

Kiki: Oh my God that's genius, and then I think because even though we don't seem like it, but we are more introverted people and we like [31:51]. So whenever I go out it's always like an effort, it's like I feel like I have to ask people questions and it works every single time, because even if you directed the question back to them they will just keep on going it's the strangest thing ever.

Kaila: We are, and I feel like podcasting comes so naturally to us because we are just talking to each other, but we have like this [32:12] it's literally a protective shield so you are kind of hiding while you are talking so it's ideal. So what's it like dating sober? Well you actually haven't dated sober. What was it like not dating sober for you?

Kiki: Oh my God that's so funny. So it's just like basically every single guy, this is terrible. So besides my first ex-boyfriend from high school when I was 16, which is like you don't really count, and like we played in the band together so it was easy, like we were just friends and then we dated and that was it.

But I have actually never been on an official date, like minus alcohol. I have always gotten shit-faced hammered, and then did like something bad and then like hooked up with them and then we ended up dating. And I was also really young, I ended up meeting my boyfriend -we now I'm pretty young but like before that like the couple guys I dated I was fucking hammered, like game over and like doing something regretful, but like in a way I was lucky that it worked out, but you just don't really know who you are dating or what it is you just don't know anything. It could have been really bad, although I did date a really bad guy one time.

Kaila: Oh my God, when I can think of the how it could have been bad situations when I was high. There were like questionable dangerous situations that I would never be in now.

Kiki: That's so scary, but I mean prison guy you've invaded those guys.

Kaila: Yes, he was actually the first or the last person guy I dated, it was very surprising that he went to prison he was like strait-laced. I think he did something business where he like wore a suit to work, so it's very, very shocking when I found out later that he is in prison, but I was like good for you [34:08] but the other guy was definitely calmer because he talks shit to me and then he went to prison. So don't be mean to me or else you will go to prison. So what's it like, is it any different now with your, because you and your boyfriend were drunk together. So what's it like being sober together?

Kiki: Oh my God that's actually funny. I think that's probably my only like dating experience. We were dating, we have been together for almost 8 years, but we were not sober for 5 and a half or 6 of those years - 6 of those years yes. So like when you start to get to know somebody after you both are sober, it's like really getting to know that person.

Kaila: Well because you are a different person when you are sober like yourself.

Kiki: Yes, and it's freaky because you are very vulnerable, and that's why most alcoholics drink because they want to be that better person that they think they are. So fortunately we had like [35:12] and like boxing so we just like literally beat each other up. And it's funny that you say that, we were really new but when you first are getting sober there are tough times.

And I mean of course I knew there were tough times, but there are tough times that you go through emotionally, there is tough times that you go through with your own self, and then I think I was lucky to have the boxing because we would argue through boxing. So it was kind of like you know we would fight each other and then I would get frustrated, and then like boxing or whatever it is.

But we learned a lot about each other and it ended up like we had just been hiding our true selves behind this veil of alcohol and partying. So it was really good to be sober, but we are totally different we are boring as fuck, like we are not nearly as interesting as we used to be.

Kaila: Well you probably weren't as interesting, because that's the thing with drunk people right?

Kiki: Exactly, that is so fucking true.

Kaila: But it's like sober dating I think is so much better just because of the choices, like I date such a higher-quality caliber of guy. I remember there was this one year in Hollywood that I kept meeting guys with no cars - I was like how is this possible. I used to be an import model, which means that anybody I knew had nice cars. Like when I was growing up in high schools, the Asian kids they all had, you know a lot of them had BMW, they all at least had a Honda. And then here I was in my late twenties meeting dudes after dudes with no car.

Kiki: It is probably the music industry, that's like a hard place to go - no cars.

Kaila: I am never dating a guy with no car again, that has not happened since I was sober.

Kiki: Have you ever dated, so after you got sober, did you ever date someone that wasn't sober?

Kaila: Yes, my first boyfriend. I actually did what you are not supposed to do. I think I was within my first year I'd gone through a long-term relationship of like 5 years. And usually that's not recommended, although it's not a rule, just because like when you are newly sober you are still fighting out about yourself. But I actually had a good relationship and he drink also periodic so not every single day.

But he did actually turn out to have a little bit of a drinking problem, but it didn't really affect us in the beginning. And I find that some guys really like that I don't drink, just because maybe they have dated really drunk girls or something. So the next guy I dated after that was sober, so that was interesting because you can have like a whole new level of intimacy, whether you like it or not.

Kiki: That's interesting, you literally had two different types of people, so there was a lot of different perspective you've got there?

Kaila: Yes, so now I have been single for a year and I have absolutely no interest in dating, like I feel like there is all, and I feel like you know there is obviously a little bit more pressure on women to be coupled up or whatever. I think the idea is kind of misogynist, like more and more women that I am meeting nowadays are not having kids and are choosing to be single.

If I meet somebody who blows my mind cool but if not like 100%, like this article came out, I think it was Emma Watson from the Harry Potter thing. She said something about how she loved being self-partnered, but it's just like a cheesy way to put it. I love that like a younger Millennial celebrity. I feel like this new generation is growing up much different than ours did and they have different values.

Kiki: Absolutely, I totally agree with that like having to like - and in a way when you are not searching for something too I feel like things come to you more. So when you are confident in yourself and you are owning your shit, guys think that's more attractive, or the right guys at least you don't want a guy that wants you to be like - so I feel like better things happen when you are not like, you know people who are trying to date, trying to date, trying to date. And then they are trying to find a guy, trying to find a guy, trying to find a guy. And then it becomes more difficult because their focus is so owned in on trying to find that guy.

Kaila: But literally I know a couple of people who I know settle just because they don't want to be alone - wow really like you really are that scared to be alone, like that's something you need to work on because I love hanging out with myself.

Kiki: Exactly, sometimes like I want 90% and it's terrible, but I think it's because we are introverted people, but I like 90% of my time to be alone.

Kaila: I mean you are your best buddy you should be your best buddie. I mean some people yourself is your worst enemy if you are not sober or not working on yourself, so I can see why that might be a problem. But yes being with somebody just to be with somebody, like you really care that much about what other people thinks, like who cares.

So here are our tips on kind of how to date sober. So you are newly sober and you are going on your first date without a cocktail - what do you? Well one good tip is to do a fun activity, you know sitting across a dinner and just talking to each other might be a little bit awkward. A movie is probably not a good idea because then you don't talk at all, but like a fun little activity - like it's funny I was in Carousel recently, and I was doing this painting activity and I was like painting I am really terrible at painting and this does not sound fun at all, but it was so therapeutic. And then that's a great way you know you can have conversations but you are really concentrating on painting too, and then you can kind of share an experience together.

Kiki: [41:34] you can take home with you.

Kaila: Yes, and there is so many fun activities that you can do around LA or anywhere around the world. You can go just walking around a beautiful location or go hiking if you are more of an active person, or go to a Cat Cafe. So one other thing is if you are in recovery, I mean in LA there is a huge recovery community, I keep saying that but also in New York and in most of the major cities there is massive, massive recovery community.

I would not recommend dating someone at your regular meeting because then oh my God it will be awkward. I actually dated someone in AA and he goes to none of my meetings, a totally different side of town. Here is the thing, when I use to date not sober I would have horrible breakups too you know, but now like my breakups are pretty civil.

If I bump into either of my two sober boyfriends, we are totally cool like there is no animosity. I don't feel like I would really be uncomfortable if I saw him, but it's just better if you are not bumping into your ex it's just easier. Even if I saw him I guess I wouldn't like share forthright about who I might be dating at that time because I wouldn't want to offend him Etc. If you are newly sober don't date an [43:07] because you are just asking to lose your sobriety.

Kiki: So I have a couple of tips. The best thing to do I think is to [43:19] and just be upfront and honest when you are on a date and just let them know, or even before like send them a text saying hey I am sober, I just want to let you know it's not a crazy big deal but I want you to know. And have that discussion with them and in case you know that's a big problem.

Kaila: I mean if somebody has a problem with it that's a Red Cloud.

Kiki: I saw someone post on Facebook feed. But they are like three things that a girl I must date have. And it was literally like they must like rock music, they must be like something or whatever in LA and then they must have drunk.

Kaila: I get that. When I used to do drugs I was like I cannot date a guy who doesn't do drugs, like why like I am going to go do coke and like he's not going to do it with me that's weird. And like I would have some legit, here is the one thing like sometimes I will think oh wow with my recent ex boyfriends, it would be nice to bond with him on E because it is kind of bonding when you do E together, not like real intimacy but it feels fun to do.

Kiki: Yes, and you get like connected with them I guess.

Kaila: Yes, so I get it I wouldn't judge anyone for that. If I were drinking or if I were heavily drinking, or if someone is a light drinker they could care less if you didn't drink, but that's probably a sign that dude is a heavy drinker.

Kiki: Yes, definitely and he's in the music industry. But it's supposed to be like really, really upfront, and set those clear boundaries in the beginning of your date - whether it's when you first meet them or maybe texting them in the beginning, and just be really, really clear. You don't have to be rude about it but just make sure you know that's where you stand in terms of your current path towards recovery.

Also be okay with them doing their own thing, although it's not suggested to date someone that's an alcoholic. If someone drinks occasionally or has their alcohol under control and you are dating them. Be open-minded to letting them do their own thing, don't try to push your own motive on to them because that can be stressful.

Kaila: If you are trying to push your own motives you might need to go to Al-Anon, that's another program.

Kiki: There you go, Al-Anon guys check that out, and just be open-minded and be understanding. Also be communicative and talk about stuff, if things are weird or if they feel weird, like a lot of times people around me are always like should we drink around you and they get really weird around me, but I am like no, no like I always am open, I am like hey I am totally fine with you drinking I go to bars all of the time and not drink it's like completely normal. And most people who don't know they just don't know you know so it's good to communicate. Go on a date during the day - go somewhere like you said go on an adventure.

Kaila: It's funny because during the day I am like the lightings is not as nice when you are in a bar or in a restaurant.

Kiki: But like go outside or do something outside where you are doing an activity, or you're keeping yourself busy. And daytime will be less likely that anyone will want to drink including your date. And I always liked adventure, you know hiking is a really good way and you get to know somebody, you don't have to look at them directly face-to-face if you are like socially like - you know we are on a podcast and we are doing this now but I usually don't. But if I sit with my boyfriend at dinner I will sit next to him.

Kaila: Oh my God I have that too, but less now that I am sober. But I never want to sit directly across from them. If you had a square table, you would like want them to sit like at the adjacent square.

Kiki: Absolutely, because I don't like eye contact too much. So like you know if you want to go on an adventure, go on a hike you know go to the beach, do something weird and crazy like take an adventure trip instead of you know doing the standards bar, meeting at the bar or just do coffee. I am addicted to coffee by the way it's a problem.

Kaila: I don't do coffee dates you have got to buy me dinner, I mean coffee is fine after dinner but you have got to buy me dinner - I am sorry. But like the ultimate Wellness I think with dating or anything else is being comfortable with yourself. So before you start dating, if you are newly sober I would not jump into dating at all. Probably wait a year and work on yourself and then jump into dating, like you know you should spend that whole year or more getting to know yourself.

Because it is said that when you start your addiction that's where you are stunted. So if you like started getting addictive at 18 and you are 30, you are really just 18 years old in your frame of mind. So there is a lot of getting to know yourself, like you know discover your spiritual thing or something you are passionate about or work on yourself. Maybe you need to go to therapy or maybe you need to just kind of explorer what truly makes you happy outside of drugs and alcohol.

Kiki: Wow, that like totally just resonated with me because I am pretty nearly sober, like I just like took a minute to just register that.

Kaila: Yes, you actually had a reaction.

Kiki: Yes, you saw that too right I was like what the fuck. That's crazy that when your sober self, it's kind of like back to when you were your original sober self, we were just literally talking about that the other day about how we are so different, like me and Martin were talking about how we are so different and like we are weird and like really childish. And that makes so much sense because you are like reverting back to your original sober self.

Kaila: Yes, so find that younger self and be kind that person.

Kiki: Pet it and cherish it.

Kaila: Literally, like there is all of this exercises because I am all like [48:58] it's like nurturing your child and doing positive affirmation. The affirmation worked but they are so like stupid, but like I actually do affirmations and I feel like they work really well like out loud. And instead of affirming yourself for doing great things, what really helps me as affirming.

This is like a wellness treatment to put on yourself, and it's affirming yourself for not stupid but little things, like hey Kaila great job making the coffee today you did great, but that's just to like program your mind so it automatically says great job, instead of automatically saying oh you fucked-up again.

Kiki: Yes, I think that's so healthy, I think practicing positive affirmation and confirming that you are doing great. Even like small or big I mean that's everything, and it's all about mind-set and framing is right so I totally agree.

Kaila: Yes, so that's another episode, hopefully you found something helpful to take out into your daily word. We would love to hear about your sober dating stories or horror stories either one is good. So write to us, we would love to hear from you. It really helps us when you leave a comment or subscribe, so we can get the word out there that sober is awesome and we love it.

Kiki: Sober is sexy folks, so feel free to send an email if you have any questions or concerns to kiki@fromhelltowellness.com. We will see you at the next episode bye.


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