Episode 23: Overcoming Uncertainty While Being Sober


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Uncertainty is the root of fear.It’s also been the big theme of our current time with quarantine and a global pandemic.Most people can become consumed by uncertainty, which drives them to become fearful. As recovering alcoholics and addicts, Kaila and Kiki discuss how sobriety has actually reduced uncertainty in their lives. Prior to sobriety playing in a band, life was full of uncertainty and chaos. There was no true sense of direction or faith in any process.Now, uncertainty is just a faint memory after sobriety. The girls discuss different ways that they overcame uncertainty with their addictions and in the current events today. Also, they get into changing your mindset to see negative situations as opportunities rather than hindrances.In this episode, you’ll hear about:

  • What it was like playing a band full of chaos and uncertainty
  • How uncertainty has been almost eliminated after sobriety
  • How to see the quarantine as an opportunity rather than something negative 


Kaila: Hey what’s up. It’s Kaila and Kiki and you are listening to From Hell to Wellness, and we are on Zoom. So this episode is about uncertainty and sobriety, which there is a lot of uncertainty in sobriety, but now everyone is experiencing uncertainty because this is an unprecedented time and everybody wants to know when the quarantine’s going to end, what’s regular life is going to look like now, and experts are weighing in on it but really no one has any idea.

Kiki: It’s pretty a scary time to be honest, it’s like the apocalypse without the


Kaila: But to be honest I stay in contact with so many sober people, and of course there is exceptions but most sober people are like not freaked out about it. They are like everything happens for a reason and there must be some kind of positive reasons we can’t see in this. The question that I have been asking myself is why is this happening for me – not why is this happening to me, because like something you as a sober person try to ask yourself in every situation. Instead of being a victim to circumstances, like not me saying why is Coronavirus happening for me. But I don’t know what you believe in, I actually never talked about this. Do you believe in a higher power God or some kind of thing?

Kiki: I am a full blast atheist; I believe in nothing but I believe in science. I don’t hate people that believe in religion, if’s that’s for them that’s totally for them but just not for me really.

Kaila: I don’t care what anybody believe either. So you believe that there was a big bang and then suddenly consciousness appeared or whatever?

Kiki: Definitely, I think the whole big bang theory is the most valid explanation that we can get closest to for the amount of knowledge that we currently have. So like science and like knowledge everything kind of changes with time. So I believe that we have the current resources that we have – that’s the best theory that we can come up with.

Kaila: Okay that kind of makes sense because I have this Theory. I believe in a higher power God or whatever. The reason for that is partially because I can’t believe the complexity of life that exist, like I can’t imagine it just randomly happening in a blast. But you know I am not a scientist so I don’t know.

But I always equate like when people are trying to understand God or whatever, the people who do believe in God – and they are like well if there was a god there wouldn’t be like babies getting killed and the wars and stuff like that. And my argument for that has always – not always because I used to be an atheist and agnostic, but my argument since getting sober is that higher power, or if the universe or whatever. The forces of the world that we don’t understand.

It’s kind of like equivalent, and not even equivalent to this because this is like a poor comparison, but like our brain capacity as compared to an ant. Like an ant can comprehend coming up with a theory of relativity – they don’t have the brain capacity like they can’t understand it. So for humans try to make sense of what God is doing in the world, when God can see all of the past and all of the future and everything that ever happened in the history of the world, like we can’t comprehend that, we can’t understand what’s good or what’s ultimately in the grand scheme of things.

Kiki: I agree with that 150%. The only counter argument would be if then we can’t understand what’s beyond, then how do we know that God exists if we can’t understand it.

Kaila: We know that God exists, but I guess it’s not even like I believe in a god with like the old guy with the white beard sitting up there. I believe there is a power in the universe greater than me and that’s my thought.

Kiki: I like that too. I definitely could agree with that. I think a lot of the times what happens in religion is that its interpretations of things that we can’t understand. But to know that there is something Beyond just human mind and human understanding I think is very true, because to attribute all of existence is what we can comprehend would be very selfish as a human race. I think there is something so much more Beyond just what we can understand, and that I could see would be the closest to what religion would be.

Kaila: Well for example, I am looking at my little perfect Hammy cast right now. Somebody created him you know, whether it be nature or the Big Bang or God but something created him.

Kiki: That’s a very interesting topic, but I think ultimately what happened is that it has a lot to do with the theme of this podcast – its uncertainty, and when we feel uncertain about anything, whether it’ God or the circumstance where we are in quarantine. It makes us feel uncomfortable and not at nest. I think that’s really reflective of this whole theme and where we are currently today. But I love what you said earlier, when you said what can this quarantine do for me. That’s an attitude that I think everybody should have because you can see any opportunity as something to be beneficial for you, rather than something just to take you down.

Kaila: Yes, literally are you going to be a victim your whole life, like just stuff happening to you and just like thinking the world is against you. I believe whatever you believe to the core of yourself becomes your truth. So if you believe there is a positive God, even if God doesn’t exist or whatever, then you would have lived your whole life thinking a positive God exit and that will affect the trajectory of your life. Before getting sober there was this one time it took me six weeks to record one verse of a song.

Kiki: Was this in the band days, did I know you?

Kaila: This was before the band; this was like back in the 90s days. And I definitely did not believe in God at this time – and Embryo was the one. We had this producer named Embryo, super mega talented guy, and we were recording my song called Move, which was a song that came out before my other song. Candy Coated Sugar Crush. That thing got millions of plays on Myspace and I toured and I remember that. But Move was not the hit song, the song did not have that many words in it.

Kiki: Do you remember the words?

Kaila: Well I will add it to the show notes, it was not a very worthy course. So I was like frequently coming to the studio and getting off a high or high or something. I was going through a breakup with my boyfriend at that time and I was super, super depressed. But the real question is, I understand why the engineer didn’t give a shit because he was getting paid hourly, but Embryo was not getting paid hourly.

So why was he okay with us taking so long. We literally just sing one thing over and over and over. And I didn’t really remember any of this as well because I was super high during this time. I bring that up because life was full of uncertainty before that. And the fact that I just let this happened, I mean I wasn’t really conscious at this time whether I was high or like obsessed with this breakup or something, but that’s just ridiculous.

Kiki: So 6 weeks, that means there is hours in the recording studio. Did you go every day in the studio?

Kaila: Maybe we went two or three times a week and each session was like two or three hours.

Kiki: Wow, I will say though he is very particular, because we worked with him in the past too and he knows what he wants to hear, but that is crazy he must have been like really on it, was he drinking too?

Kaila: I think Embryo’s completely always been sober right. I don’t know anything about that but he is not a big drinker either way. And he was not like super frustrated, so I was like why is this acceptable. I feel like Embryo and Dasheek was the name of our recording engineer super cool dude. I think we just spent a lot of the time hanging out and talking. Maybe everyone was just enjoying chilling or something I don’t remember.

Kiki: Maybe they had a lot of fun and they didn’t want it to end.

Kaila: Maybe but it was very strange.

Kiki: That’s funny, so how long did the whole song take to Finish?

Kaila: I don’t know it’s kind of a blur, but it took an unimaginable long time.

Kiki: That’s funny, we have to ask him and be like do you remember that song – that’s so awesome. The recording process is sort of like – for those of you who haven’t been through it. It can be pretty stressful because you have to harness your creativity, but simultaneously you are put in a place where you are not as comfortable.

Kaila: Being in that recording studio is awkward as fuck, because it’s really confusing when the songs starts playing, and then it sounds weird in the headphones and then you can’t hear your voice and it doesn’t sound the same like when you are singing at home. It’s just awkward.

Kiki: For sure, I can understand the extra time that it would take, and you know you are with people that you’ll go like holy shit is this working. So I would always be in the recording studio and we would always be hammered. I don’t even know if there’s a single time where I went to a recording where I wasn’t drunk, now that I think about it – oh yes with the Vigil of War. But it is such a different vibe, when you are sober in there, you can hear everything, like everything is just there and you know exactly what’s going on. It seems like it goes a lot longer like hours. When you are drinking it feels like it’s only two hours for like a six-hour session.

Kaila: I always felt like recording was like hell and I was like God damn it I have got to go record; it was never an enjoyable thing.

Kiki: Yes, but sober its more work I think maybe because you are more actively thinking, but I remember actually pretty liking to drink. But also when I was drinking getting the takes was really hard too because you are not really fully, like you can’t hit the notes as well for me, at least I don’t know.

Kaila: I feel like it can be helpful because you are loser and less self-conscious.

Kiki: That helps a lot but I think maybe I just drink way too much, but probably yes 100% yes let’s be real.

Kaila: I remember before I got sober I read this book, I think it’s by Eckhart Tolle called The Power of Now. It was actually recommended to me by Salandy. So shout out to Salandy, if you are ever acting he has the best acting classes in the world. I have taken a lot of different acting classes and his was the one I stuck with for many years.

But he does things like he starts off each acting thing with a little monologue, not monologue but like a little thing, you saw it where he kind of just talks about stuff. And then he recommended this book at one time and he was like it will really help your acting, which made a lot of sense. Have you ever read this book?

Kiki: No.

Kaila: It’s really good, but I didn’t really get it at the time because it’s hard to apply when you are not sober. But it’s basically like life is just in the now, you know like if you are living in the past or in the future and just thinking that you are never living your life actually, and it applies the acting because in acting you want to be fully present with what you are feeling and what you are reacting to, otherwise you are not being authentic.

Kiki: That is a good point because you can tell when people are not good at acting. A long time ago this was when I was young, but in musical theater you would see some of the kids that were like almost lip syncing the next words that the person is going to say, and that’s like you know because they are anticipating what’s going to happen.

And in acting you have to react to what’s given to you, versus just kind of going with the words that’s being said, so it’s definitely a huge bonus. And especially in these crazy times I kind of have been thinking about that randomly – about how you live in the moment that’s current rather than the past because you get stuck. I think I get stuck in the past a lot for sure, like things that bother me are generally things that happened in the past years and years ago. It’s a bad cycle and like you said your time gets lost and it’s suck and drained away from something that happened five years ago for what reason, for no reason at all.

Kaila: I am guilty of that too, but also what we call Future Tripping, which is like this might happen or I might lose this, or I can’t wait for this like I am just waiting for this to happen. And you are not living your life, you are just kind of waiting for this thing to happen, and then if it happens then it’s like if it’s good it’s for a pretty limited amount of time before you go back to waiting for the next thing.

Kiki: That’s true, and that also applies too for the quarantine, because people are just going to be waiting for the quarantine time to end, and then like what am I going to do after, what am I going to do after and then eventually you’ll just get sucked up onto the couch and you are not taking advantage of the time that we currently have.

Kaila: I am really – really – really enjoying this time. Not that I want the virus to spread, but I would love an opportunity to live my life more like this, where I just get. It’s like a sabbatical where I am like what am I passionate about, I want to explore.

Kiki: That’s a great attitude, and a lot of people that I know are kind of like having a hard time with it maybe. Like I see them in my news-feed all of the time on Facebook and I think if you really take advantage of the time that you have, there’s so much can be done. There is an advantage here because you have so much more time to create something new, which is such a rare moment. Some people you know they work and work and work and they never have time off, and it’s like here is your free time, here it is right in your face.

Kaila: I learned the recovery to save money, so there’s savings for a little while, and maybe check back with me in 3 months I would be feeling different, but that comes with the recovery too, like learning that it’s important to save for the future Etc.

Kiki: Can you imagine if you were still using during this time – That’s what really freaks me out.

Kaila: Yes, like I would be calling my dealer.

Kiki: I mean it 100% is happening but I can’t even – oh my God like just being locked up.

Kaila: Cocaine is so unsanitary, you know I mean they are all using the same dollar bill, it’s not like well let me pull out my dollar or whatever, everyone is using the same one.

Kiki: Yes, and then you never know who touched it, like how it got into the country.

Kaila: Money is the dirtiest thing in the world, money probably exchanged hands like 500 times, and now we are all sharing it you know.

Kiki: It just gives you the heebie-jeebies thinking having all of these free time, like now alcohol can be delivered to your house. So I wonder if the increase of alcoholism is happening because of this quarantine, like are alcohol sales going up. It should be interested to take a look at those stats. Obviously Corona isn’t doing so well.

Kaila: We do so many things that it gets confusing and I feel like it gets deluded, but I am feeling like the more time I am spending by myself I am discovering. And I have always said this that I am a food writer that travels. But I think food is my passion actually, I have all of these other things going on but I think food is the thing. So you know me and you are possibly embarking on cooking every recipe out of Anthony Bourdain’s cookbook, and I am really excited about it.

Kiki: I think that’s such a good idea, especially when we don’t have booze or any substances anymore. Food is the substance; it gave you the same joy that I would get from drinking now that I don’t have alcohol.

Kaila: And also in my regular life I don’t really have time to cook. I am like I have got to do all of this stuff I don’t have time to go and cook – but I have plenty of time to go cook right now. I feel like I get to leisurely explorer all of these recipes. And actually you know this whole project was inspired the Julie and Julia book, which is if you haven’t seen it it’s a movie. It’s free on Netflix, but it’s all about this blogger back in the days back when blog started, and she was obsessed with Julia Child.

And it’s crazy because this girl works a full-time job while she was doing this. And I think the Joy or whatever Julia Child’s book I forgot the title – it has like 500 recipes in it. And she cooked it all in one year, so meaning she was cooking multiple recipe in a year. And some of those recipes in her cookbook are heavy duty. So what we are doing is so minor compared to that. It’s kind of inspired by that project, and I feel like this whole time I’ve been trying to – like we have been trying to twist into a pretzel.

Because you my ultimate dream is to have a Travel Ford Show, but I keep saying to myself I can’t do that, we can’t do that we are not chefs. It’s already been done before by a million people, but you get to the core of it and that’s the show that I would want to do -like a wellness travel show sure that’s fun but that’s not the number one show that I would want to do, which is just like a straight-up food show. So anyway I am jumping ahead of myself I am really excited to cook out of this cookbook. It would have never come about if I was not in quarantine.

Kiki: Well the cool thing is I think that’s amazing that you can find. That’s what the quarantine has done for you. It’s like you’ve discovered something that you are truly passionate about. And a lot of people are probably at home wondering, you know sitting in that zone of not knowing, you know the uncertainty zone. But I think if you change your mind-set to ask yourself – like when we open with this podcast, what can this quarantine do for you, it’s your opportunity it’s almost like this Golden Gift if you see it as that – to really try and discover things that you are passionate about, and really dig deeper into who you are and discover. Honestly I love cooking, it’s like the greatest thing I am obsessed with food.

Kaila: That’s the one thing that we are equally passionate about and its food.

Kiki: Definitely, traveling is fun but I think we are both the same in a sense of like we have to come home and we have got to like reset. Some people can just travel and travel and that freaks me out a little. I can’t be traveling to one place and then living out in someplace like a tiki hut, and then traveling out again and never really have a home, that would give me the heebie-jeebies. And if somebody loves that and that’s their passion that’s all them – but I like food I look for it. When I wake up in the morning I think about what am I going to cook and what am I going to eat.

Kaila: I think about what I’m going to eat next like while I’m preparing breakfast, like what am I going to eat for dinner.

Kiki: Yes, exactly I’m stoke – and I really think there is something good here because so far things are working so we have potential.

Kaila: And also I feel like when I am traveling it’s like it’s the food I am looking forward to trying, that’s like the number one thing, but also on the side note we have been doing this Tic Tok challenge. It isn’t related to this podcast, but it’s like another discovery of what I love to do, which is just like create content that I am excited about, which I feel like you probably feel the same way because you are creating some content that you are passionate about.

Kiki: You are right oh my gosh, it’s so crazy that you mentioned that I didn’t even think about it, but I don’t really play the guitar anymore. We used to do it all of the time when we were in the band, and like I still play in a band but it’s not as much like I did before, but I still don’t play guitar at home ever unless I am practicing for a gig.

And then we started doing this Tic Tok challenge, and then I started playing guitar and like holy shit it opened up this whole new world of guitar. I don’t know it kind of unlock this hidden part in my brain that I am really, really excited about as well. So that 30-day Tic Tok challenge is the Jammy jam, and it forces you to stay on schedule too because some days I am like I don’t want to do it, but when you do it and then sometimes you can come up with something that you never would have thought you would have been able to do without it, so it’s pretty amazing.

Kaila: Yes, of course it is, just like literally I have complained to you so many times and I have wanted to quit, but it’s kind of not only are we committed to this challenge but we are [24:38]. I feel like when you push past that frustration, which is like I want to just throw things at the wall. You’ll get to a breakthrough and I feel like, you know we are like on day 26th of the challenge so we are at the end. And it’s only now that I am kind of like – oh I am finding what works for me. And it hasn’t been working this whole time frankly. So I have to just push through to that point.

Kiki: And also I think if somebody is so successful at something just from the get-go, there is zero, or not zero but very little appreciation for the work that you put out, because you are a like I get it already – but like there is no drive to really find out what works and what doesn’t. So I think having a little bit of struggle is 100% what is good, because now you have tested what doesn’t work, now you know what work and now you can appreciate why it works too.

Kaila: Yes, I mean I am really excited about everything too. And you know this is like such a scary and uncertain time, but I think there are going to be some positive changes. I mean there are some broken systems in place in our country right now and we are having to take a serious look at them. I think they are going to be different afterwards, now that a Bright Light has been shined on some of these broken systems.

Also there is a theory that climate change contributed, or will contribute to Future Virus because we are destroying the environment and coming closer into contact with wildlife. So this isn’t the one coronavirus that exist out there. There’s like thousands of them or whatever. So we really need to take a careful look at our treatment of the climate and the environment and everything.

Kiki: 100%. It would be interesting to see like, you know it was a big flop in the face and especially for the healthcare systems globally. Who knows we might even have some kind of Universal Health Care in place.

Kaila: I mean American healthcare system is shocking, like how is it that expensive.

Kiki: It’s unbelievable.

Kaila: It’s unbelievable, like it is so unethical.

Kiki: 100% it’s actually truly evil.

Kaila: Yes, evil is the word.

Kiki: Yes, and I hope one day – well after this they will have to fix it. It’s like forced down their throats and they have to put some type of system in place because there is no way – like you said if something like this happens again, which is likely to outbreak again. We won’t be prepared and we might not even be able to save our population if we are continuing to make people pay for healthcare, this is just crazy.

Kaila: I will say the positive aspect of the situation at the moment is that it seems that the rate of the virus spread is starting to flatten in California, which is sooner than expected right.

Kiki: Yes, that’s huge news. It is pretty disturbing how quick it was growing, but I mean yes California itself it’s actually doing quite well as a state, which California population is massive.

Kaila: It’s a country.

Kiki: Yes, it’s massive in itself. So I think especially the LA Governor has really taken it quite well, even though it has spread drastically in Los Angeles County. I think he has been taking the steps and making the moves that are pretty strong.

Kaila: Like good job. In getting sober it’s important to learn how to live with uncertainty and to make your peace with it. Because life is uncertain. I mean anything can happen at any time, whether it’s a global pandemic like this – not be morbid, but you can go outside and get in a car accident, you’ll never know what’s going to happen. So it’s important to live in the now and be able to roll with whatever life throws at you.

Kiki: I love that I really, really do because I’m the past person like I said I get stuck in stupid stuff in the past. I don’t look too much towards the future, but I do get stuck up in the past and it’s not healthy. I think if you really try to focus on now and what you can do today – wake up every morning and see it as an opportunity and change your perspective, and see that now I have time to own in a skill that I never got to do while I was working full-time.

Or now is the time that I can practice art or something creative that you didn’t get a chance to do. Or making videos or joining the 30-day Tic Tok challenge, we are going to have another one soon, you know like try something new the time is given to us. And people are always talking about having more vacation time on a regular day. Now it’s here – I mean you can’t really go anywhere, and travellers it does sucks for us, but you can also see it as an opportunity to own in your skill and learn more about yourself.

We hope that you are staying safe and really trying to stay inside and make sure you are maintaining healthy practice at home, taking care of yourself, you know proper social distancing. We hope that you are taking care of your mental health. And if you ever need someone to talk to, don’t hesitate to reach out to healthcare professional or someone that you trust, in case you feel like relapsing or you need just some mental health support. Or feel free to hit us up, email us or hit us up, we have got tons’ free time we are here and we are available. We will catch you next week Thursday for our next episode. So take care, bye.


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