Episode 22: Self-Esteem and Sobriety


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Let’s face it, self-esteem is something that many alcoholics and addicts struggle to come to peace with. It’s one of the main culprits of addiction in the first place, and it’s not necessarily the easiest to come by even after sobriety.Kaila and Kikii discuss in-depth their struggles with self-esteem from an early age to adulthood. They also discuss what it was like dealing with self-esteem in the band. They also describe their experience creating vision boards, and other travel and wellness activities they’ve done to help boost their self-esteem that you can do too.In this episode, they discuss:

  • Why alcohol and drugs are a huge deterrent to building healthy self-esteem
  • How to help boost your self-esteem while getting sober
  • Sober activities to do that will help give you confidence

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Published: Apr. 09, 2020 @ 5AM Edit


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Kiki: What’s up everyone, you are listening to From Hell Wellness. It’s me Kiki and Kaila, and we are here today to help you learn more about getting sober, why it can be fun and discuss openly about our adventures from being alcoholics and drug users in rock bands, to Hollywood to now sober travel writer, extraordinaire.

Kaila: So you know we’ve been having a lot of fun doing this podcast. I think it just becomes naturally. Sometimes I feel like when we record YouTube episodes they are so awkward.

Kiki: They are stiff right, I feel like we are just free and plus we don’t have to be filmed.

Kaila: Yes, I think that’s it, and we have so much to say because we don’t talk – getting it all out into the world.

Kiki: That’s fucking funny but it’s true I don’t really talk. I work at home so you work at home, we both work at home so we don’t talk and it’s healthy for us.

Kaila: Yes, this is like how our therapy, this isn’t for you this is for us. But we did this vision board Workshop the other day. It was put on by Anna Rainer. And I actually do a little vision board here and there. I’ve had some amazing stuff happened through vision boards. So we wrote a book last year called The 30-Day Travel Challenge, and vision boards is one of the days of the challenge, and I like to put it on there because it really works.

I mean a couple of things is that one year – so I used to do my vision boards a little bit differently. I would find things I want and print them out and put them on my vision board so it’s very, very specific. And then one year I put on a copy of the Rolling Stone and just stuck it on there. It’s not even like that number one dream or anything, but then the following year I was featured in the Rolling Stone.

It was an emerging artist which was like – but it’s because of the vision board. And then another time I had an ex that was like a really talented director, and for the longest time I had his logo or something on my vision board, because I really wanted him to direct one of our music videos. That didn’t really happen but I went out with him for 5 years.

But there is another story that I have told you before. The first guy who told me how to do vision boards. This guy name Kevin [2:43] he was at the time the world’s youngest like Real Estate Mogul or something. And he said he did a vision board and he had this model on there just to represent like whatever. He ended up marrying her but he didn’t know this girl, he didn’t know her at all and he just ended up meeting her and marrying her.

Kiki: That’s amazing. I think vision boards are like a great way to harness in your goals. When you can visualize them, make your goals tangible, there is a reality and a connection to that, that makes you want to get what you want and then you will go for it. Versus if you have an idea of something and then it’s just like you know in the space of your head, you can easily get lost in the whole mixed of what’s going on.

Kaila: Yes, it’s crazy so I am interested because we are making this vision board so definite this year. But basically what happened at this Workshop it was very different. I have never made a World Vision bored at a workshop – first of all I’ve always done it as a solitary thing. So we get there and we did a little bit of socializing, and Anna has like three pairs of [4:00] oh my God there is just one pair he is so sweet but he was like.

Kiki: Why, was he trying to get our attention. I think he was trying to get our attention.

Kaila: Because he would start screaming after you come to them.

Kiki: And when we went to the other parrots that were across the room – he was like a full blast scream.

Kaila: But then when you started saying good bird like hello birdie, he started performing, he started dipping his tail on his swing.

Kiki: He was showing off so much he was adorable. I wish I know what their names were.

Kaila: I know, but it’s a good way you know we love animals so much. So it’s a good way to get started, but we started off with a, well I guess that was our first sound bath.

Kiki: Yes.

Kaila: We did our own [4:55] so that was good.

Kiki: Yes, but there’s a huge difference between [4:59].

Kaila: [5:01] that you’re holding your hand.

Kiki: Right, and honestly I am really sensitive to sounds and that sound gave me a little bit of anxiety.

Kaila: It’s supposed to be relaxing.

Kiki: I am crazy and weird; I don’t know why I like things that are supposed to make you feel good makes me crazy.

Kaila: Massages makes you crazy.

Kiki: Massages makes me insane, but I felt the craziest twinge in my right ear, and then it started making me feel – I have a slightly busted eardrum on my right ear from blowing my nose too much. Oh my God I woke up one night because I was like half blowing my nose, and then all of a sudden I hear this squealing in my right ear when I blow my nose, and then it would pain like no other, and it’s like I ruptured it ever-so-slightly. So I felt when that sound was going off the radio was going.

Kaila: I think that was because you had a rupture ear.

Kiki: Yes, but other than that it’s very, very calming to other people.

Kaila: Oh my God, we did this really fun meditation. So were you able to get into the meditation because you were having the ringing?

Kiki: I am a weird person, but I think the part that was nice was the physical one – the beginning of the meditation where she was like okay, like feel your goes and now feel your calf muscles, and now feel all the way up to your body so you are having physical experience. That was more of my style for sure, but when we started – it’s just different everyone has different ways of meditating I think.

Kaila: So we did this meditation and it was basically like we were wondering like through the meadow – the most beautiful meadow in the world. Like a guided meditation, it’s the most beautiful Meadow in the world and you are like surrounded by things you love, and then you go into a cottage and there is a gift for you on the podium. So what I saw was kind of like the room was filled with quartz crystals, which was not represented in my photo because I don’t know how to draw them.

There are cats everywhere and I kept thinking of Hammy during my meditation, because I just think of Hammy all of the time like I am thinking about him right now. But on the podium there was like a pink quartz heart. So we had this meditation – did you see anything when you meditated?

Kiki: Honestly I remember coming home and thinking oh my God what was wrong with me. Well you finished yours first.

Kaila: Yes, we got over to the table after finishing our meditation. So we all meditated together as a group like 15 to 20 minutes or whatever. And we got to the table and she was like okay so spend 10 minutes drawing what you saw. I am a terrible artist by the way, but basically what I saw was a beautiful stream with a bunch of fish inside – Hammy handing me that quartz heart, Hammy is my kitty and then like a bunch of cats and a frog.

Kiki: You needed to share that photo, I nearly died it was so fucking cute. Oh my God that’s funny, for me I think there is something wrong, I am like a dark person I don’t know why. But like I got through the meditation part and the first part was good. The second part where we saw the meadow, I thought of a place that I used to go to in high school, which I used to live by a lake and we used to ride bikes out there all of the time. Pre-drinking days so it was very peaceful, but then when we started going. I don’t remember the cottage part because I zoomed out and I started thinking about fighting.

Kaila: Fighting?

Kiki: Yes, I was really thinking about fighting. I was like in fighting that I didn’t even remember.

Kaila: Like physical fighting like Muay Thai?

Kiki: Yes.

Kaila: But that is kind of your meditation right Muay Thai?

Kiki: I guess so maybe. It was weird I couldn’t hear anything after she said, okay come out of your whatever time to wake up and I was like holy shit what just happened, but yes weird. So when she asked us to draw something I was like holy shit what do I draw, so I just drew the lake the first part of it – I don’t know what happened but who knows. But it was good though I thought it was like a very peaceful moment where your mind is centered.

Kaila: Yes, I like a guided meditation because then for me there is less – apparently not for you, but for me less wondering off the mind. Because I was imagining Hammy and all of these kittens and stuff.

Kiki: I didn’t even hear the box part; I didn’t even know that was a thing.

Kaila: The box?

Kiki: Like where they give you a box or something.

Kaila: No, there is a podium in the cottage and there is a gift just for you, I can’t believe you don’t remember.

Kiki: That’s weird I don’t know what happened.

Kaila: But anyways so we get out there and we get our little drawings done, and she does the division boards a little bit differently which is cool. She has them on a pie circle so it’s stylish looking. And she has this method which I really, really liked, which was that you did not cut your image out, which is pretty boring because I always cut them out in the square. You ripped them, which just like naturally gives it an edgy kind of artistic look, and it’s also more time-consuming and meditative too in a way – and we were allowed to talk to each other.

Kiki: That’s the best part ever I love that. It was good because you know when you have to feel like, especially I don’t like socializing that much, but like if you feel obligated to socialize your mind gets in a different place.

Kaila: Yes, you are like performing. For extroverts perhaps you don’t feel like you are performing because you are in your natural state, but for real introvert, and by the way I don’t believe in extrovert introvert. You are just not an introvert if you are an extrovert, there is no such thing. You know there is this whole category of people who claimed to be extrovert introvert.

Kiki: What does that mean?

Kaila: They love people but they like their down time, but I am like that’s not an introvert.

Kiki: I am pretty sure that’s just normal for extrovert people.

Kaila: Yes, I think everybody need some time to themselves in life. Just because you need some time to yourself does not make you an extrovert introvert okay, there is no such thing. I should write an article about that, extrovert and introvert do not fucking exist. Stop trying to claim to be an introvert, we are really introvert person. One time my ex and I got into a huge fight during Christmas, and this is why, we like started, and his family is lovely by the way.

But we went to dinner at his family, like you know we showed up an hour early to socialize, we had a long dinner, a delicious dinner. Afterwards we played a long game of Charades. But it’s still okay it’s still bearable, but then we were like okay let’s go over, because this is like at their aunt house or something where the big dinner was being held. So they were like let’s go back to the house and exchange gifts. Still okay, so then we go and exchange gifts and then we just like talk, and they are like let’s show you everything of his childhood, which was cute at first – but then now it’s like 3 hours in at the after thing.

Kiki: Oh my God, what time was it?

Kaila: It’s just like you know I have a really awkward smile on my face but deeply in pain. And then afterwards when I drove home I just kind of freaked out on him and I was like I can’t take this. We have another family dinner with my family tomorrow, which by the way was very short because it’s a Chinese dinner. But like I mean he did not deserve this at all, his family was so sweet, but it was too much for me like it was too much, it’s not a lot for a normal person, but if you are an introvert and plus you are a sober.

Kiki: Sober on top of it – and honestly they came over for like 30 minutes.

Kaila: Extrovert introvert would never [13:41] they don’t exist.

Kiki: They would have fun and it would be normal.

Kaila: And then it would be like okay cool I need a break after they had left.

Kiki: And then they would like go home and work for 3 hours and then go out and meet their friends for drinks. I wonder like it kind of goes into the topic of, maybe Asian Americans.

Kaila: Maybe all Asians are introverts.

Kiki: A little bit introverted, and I think it might just be culturally the way that you grow up, or the way that you learn how to interact socially, but you learn your moral your foundations and your morals as an Asian American, and it does have a lot to do with self-confidence which is essentially the theme of us.

Kaila: It’s not really something that’s taught too. Here is the thing, individuality isn’t like celebrated in China for example, or Japan that’s an American thing.

Kiki: 100%, and that’s a big issue too with like eastern and western cultures they have a lot of clashes – they have a lot of meshes, but they also have a lot of clashes. So when you were going up with an Eastern cultural mentality in a western cultural environment. It becomes overwhelming I think, and a lot of the times you know when you are taught to respect your elders and you become quieter I guess. That’s my interpretation. I don’t know if this is completely applicable.

Kaila: Most Asians are described as generally quiet by other ethnicity.

Kiki: Because we are taught to have respect I think, and respect is so important because these days’ people have little to none and it’s really unattractive – it’s like please stop. But I think a lot of the times too it has to do with like self-confidence, and you feel almost more obligated to need more encouragement, or like liquid encouragement or something to feel like to make the anxiety go away, because I think I am definitely brutal with all types of weird bazaar anxieties.

So like after being sober you’ll realize that this was a weird. But I remember I did this thing when I was drunk, I remember it so specifically when I was probably 22 years old. I went to a bar and this was a bar that we always went to. It was like meeting a bunch of friends that weren’t mine and they were all like different. That was when the anxiety was at its peak. I remember going into the bathroom with my drink and looking at myself and just going like this – I mean like you can do this. I remember looking in the bathroom mirror.

Kaila: When was this?

Kiki: I was probably like 22 years old. Just like feeling like oh my God I can’t do this, like I can’t have a social conversation with people so I just drink my heart out that night [16:38] after that. But I think the root of the problem I think with a lot – maybe and maybe not but at least for me alcohol [16:48] from a really, really difficult time of self-confidence.

Kaila: That’s where most addictions stems from – like some kind of lack of self-love and confidence. I mean in my twenties I was an awful person. I was like really, not nerdy in high school but I was kind of like really shy and ignored I think. And then I became an import model in my twenties. And then you know being all sexy and stuff and then I gained some kind of notoriety and fame in the Asian community. So there were times that I would go out to Asian places and people would come up and ask for autographs and photos.

Kiki: But still they do.

Kaila: No not really, but like it gave me a big hand, especially coming from like I felt like I fucking earned this because I built this thing. I was really mean to people, like I was really, really mean. But it’s also like I was introverted, so I didn’t even know how to interact with people. So my knee-jerk response was just to ignore everyone, and then I would just talk to my very specific. So it was impart snobbishness, but import fear.

Kiki: Interesting, so like was it sort of like a defence mechanism to be like well the easiest way is just to be dismissive kind of?

Kaila: Yes, the easiest way is just to completely – they call it hiding in a cave, or hiding and biting.

Kiki: Yes, like if you have animals cornered they will bite back?

Kaila: Yes.

Kiki: That’s interesting.

Kaila: So mostly it was just like just leave me alone.

Kiki: I think for me my biggest issue, which is hard to talk about I really didn’t talk. I had a friend who I grew up with, one friend that was like when I was like probably in 4th grade I met her. For me I am like a puppy dog the beta dog [18:51] to like get the attention of the alpha, that’s like me being real with myself. I am like a people pleaser and I want to be friendly and nice. That’s my defense I think I try to be overly nice, it’s like the opposite all of the time.

Kaila: I think it’s fair, like when there is fucking conflict I’m like [19:13] but it’s funny I have one of those which is my friend [19:21] which is even more Alpha than I am, so when she’s around I am like let her do her thing. Rose is like just a fearless lady.

Kiki: When I joined the band, that was the moment [19:41] because I felt like, I never had friends that were Asians first off because I grew up in a pretty white community. But first off we were in this band that was like a bunch of bad ass Asian girls, and I realized and I was like I like hanging out with Asian girls. [20:01] but like there was people like me.

Kaila: Totally like you because we are musicians.

Kiki: So literally it was like my calling had found, and it was like this huge self-confidence being that I went through, and you know my boyfriend at the time was so against it.

Kaila: I thought he was all for it because he like liked a whole bunch of Asian girls. I remember one night we were going to the Playboy Mansion and you were not allowed to go.

Kiki: Yes, you see I didn’t even remember that but I do remember now that you point it out, holy shit it was like that, and then like he loved you guys and he loved the idea but he didn’t want me to be in one. And that’s like stupid I don’t like that at all.

Kaila: But he was right ultimately because it ended your relationship. But it would have happened anyway because that’s your college relationship.

Kiki: It was never bound to workout but I think moments like that – but the only problem was that I also had alcohol too, so that really helped out in the process.

Kaila: Did you drink in high school?

Kiki: Not really, I did it a little bit but I wasn’t really into it until college. And college was like big time drinking and then I could be this other person. But I think after alcohol it was really tough. How did you feel about, like did your self-perception changed once you became sober?

Kaila: I think the first couple of years it’s definitely really hard, because the first couple of years you are learning how to be sober and learning about yourself. Maybe it’s just because I am older but my self-confidence now is just like natural, when before my sobriety is low – I just feel like life now is easy.

And of course life still has challenges and things are going to happen, but just before life was so fucking difficult – like we were in the deep of the band and like everything was so difficult. Everything was so difficult because everybody was drunk and high and everybody had low self-confidence.

Kiki: That’s insane and you know as we doing this podcast, I start to realize your perspective. It must have been nearly dealing with us, like trying to harness a bunch of crazy animals.

Kaila: But I wasn’t because I was like not mentally well either. And then you know I had like depression issues that I hadn’t dealt with until recently. So everybody was dealing with their shit.

Kiki: But we made it, I mean somehow we made it.

Kaila: I think it was a unifying thing for us through the years actually. I think it was healing, it was definitely healing for many of the people. There’s something magical about our band at one point – like for one year it was really magical. And I am counting both when Jen was in it. Jen was our old bassist, there were some magical times with her, and there were some magical times when you came within the band. So there are magical times with all of our band members – except one of them before who shall not be mentioned.

Kiki: The only problem was like the self-confidence was a huge issue in the beginning of the band, but alcohol immediately took its place and unfortunately it became a massive crush. I could not do a show sober.

Kaila: That’s a lot of musician, that’s a musician thing.

Kiki: It’s the craziest thing, but I remember the peak of my alcoholism in the band. Do you remember those rallies that we use to do like in high school rallies?

Kaila: The little kid shows?

Kiki: Little kids show, we are talking about middle school and high school. We went to a rally once an anti-bully rally and performed and I was like I can’t fucking do this. I hated high school and it was giving me anxiety. So I had a bottle that I hid under my car which was so illegal, and it was half open but it was a bottle of 99 Bananas, which is a 99 proof banana liqueur [24:39] like you are going to drink and I am like yes. So we sat in the back of my fucking car and drink in the back before at 9 a.m. and then we did the show – smelling like bananas it was bad I was hammered.

Kaila: You guys are always drinking I didn’t really pay attention to it, but there would always be like some bottled wine in the locker.

Kiki: It was always, and it was a norm I didn’t think it was anything bad, it was just like it’s alcohol you know.

Kaila: You are in a band so nobody thinks anything is strange about that. But yes I don’t miss my twenties at all like I would never want to go back to the way that I felt during those times. But I think the more and more sobriety you get, it’s just more and more self-confidence build every single year that passes. And that’s a true benefit because I feel like when you are let’s say drinking, your confidence level probably just stays about the same and you are not growing.

Kiki: Yes, and especially with alcohol because there are moments of massive regrets, and it’s what I call the cycle of death, or I am sorry The Cycle of Shame. It is a real thing like you feel regretful because you did the thing, and then you are like well I feel like shit so now I have got to keep drinking to feel more like shit – even though I am functioning, which by the way this is random but I learned this a couple of days ago. I always justified my alcoholism and my actions because I was functional.

So I would still be able to show up, I’d still show up and I would still have my job. But I learned from another podcast, The Sober Fool podcast which we just did an interview with. She says that it’s because your job will always be the last thing that goes for alcoholism or addicts because that is the money maker, that will give you the alcohol and the drugs, if you don’t have a job. And I was like holy shit, you will lose your relationships and you will lose your sanity, but you will still keep your job because that brings in the dough. So I was like holy shit.

Kaila: But there are a lot of functional alcoholics.

Kiki: That’s true, there are tons of functional alcoholics for sure.

Kaila: I mean there are musicians like word class musicians touring on heroin. So people can make it work.

Kiki: I have never done heroin, but I can’t even imagine.

Kaila: Don’t you just want to lay down, like I would want to sleep?

Kiki: But I think also like one of the really interesting part was after I got sober, I didn’t think I was going to be able to play a sober show, I thought it was going to be impossible. And then I randomly got offered an opportunity from [27:35] to play for [unclear] because their guitarist dropped out and they are like dude we need someone to fill in and it was in the UK. I was like first off I never played in the UK on tour so I have got to check off the bucket list.

But I only wanted to do it about 30%, I love them but I was so anxious and nervous about going on tour without alcohol. I was like fuck how is that going to work how am I going to be able to function it’s not going to work, and I am like I am going to relapse blah, blah, blah. But I went on the tour and it was the most eye-opening wonderful experience I have ever had. I remembered every moment of it, it was just like the world had opened up and I was like this is what I have been missing out. I missed all of those tours that we done.

Kaila: So you don’t even remember anything that happened in Tokyo?

Kiki: I literally don’t remember, I don’t remember anything and I didn’t remember the city that I was in with the She Demons. I don’t remember lots of stuff and it’s very sad, and like I had just like a full life but I know it’s on paper and it’s on social media but it was just gone I was just black out.

Kaila: And not even when we were in the band we weren’t very good at social media so there aren’t a lot.

Kiki: That’s true, and the best time like Japan and stuff.

Kaila: Oh my God, we didn’t even get photos of most of Malaysia, like good photos of Malaysia and Shanghai, it was like six photos.

Kiki: That’s right I wish we were better at that. But I think [29:10] the real moments when you are sober they give you feelings of really self-confidence because you are feeling it all, you are feeling the shit times, but then when you feel the good times they are real and they are more tangible, and you are like okay I am glad I had that terrible time so I know what it’s like when it feels great. So I think that was a pretty noble time in especially my music career to notice that my self-confidence had boosted.

Kaila: Also I feel when you are sober you are naturally looking to better your life. So you are doing Wellness treatment self-care helps with self-confidence. So whether you are doing vision boards to bring out dreams into your life – you are getting great massages because you like them, but you know you’re seeking out different Wellness treatments to treat your body – you are treating your body better and you are eating good things and you are exercising. So all of this build your confidence.

Kiki: Absolutely, and I don’t know did you ever feel that once you did finally get sober, maybe like for a year. I noticed that everything is really crisp and clear, and like happiness in more, there is more of it.

Kaila: Well here is the thing, happiness is like unlimited. Okay so in our job as travel writers we go on media trips, and this is nothing I could have done before as an introvert. Basically what a media trip usually consist of is you go to a new destination – Tours and Boards or hotel group invites writers out, they pay for your flight and your hotel. And you fly out to this destination with anywhere from four to twenty people that you have never met before, and then you have to proceed to spend 10 hours a day with them.

This includes breakfast lunch and dinner and tons of conversation. Now I could have never done this before I got sober and before I got some self-confidence. But now I actually love going on these trips, I love meeting new people, and when you spend this much time with people you come back with real relationships that are life-long. And even if you don’t really like a person on the trip, you still have a connection with them and you still have a positive feeling that you are like wow we spend 10 days in India together.

Kiki: Right, and to remember it too. But also being sober had open that door because I don’t think I could have ever.

Kaila: I need to tell you something, like I had to twist your arm to getting to travel right. I was like what is there not to like free trips. I thought that you didn’t know they were free trips or something like that.

Kiki: Well honestly that was the first, like I was just getting sober at that time and I had no self-confidence of what I could do. I didn’t know the capabilities of what doors could be opening up for that. And I thought that after this whole music thing died and I had to get this new job. I thought like I had to basically do what my parents say and get a real job. I was like I don’t know if I can do this new path and career into something brand new, I was like am I capable of doing it.

But I think ultimately it’s just going out and trying it and then just giving it your all. It was very painful for a while because I was like, you know there is moments in your life where you have to say fuck it in a good way, and I think that was a very significant moment. Also writing the blog to begin with was kind of like a random fucking moment.

Kaila: Blogs are amazing, we have this blog a travel blog and we just have so many projects going on. We can forecast 100% of our time on that, I think it can be so killer, but it is still like a great addition to our portfolio of activities that we are doing in this rich and fulfilling silver life basically.

Kiki: It really opened the doors because now in music you have a certain crowd that respects you, and it’s like audiences and their fans. But now with travel writing it’s so much more fulfilling because people are interested in what you have to say and they are interested in the information that you are sharing. They are trusting you as a source to give back information about maybe potentially influencing them to take action too so they can go on future trips themselves. So it’s been beyond fulfilling and I am so glad to do it sober and remember every single moment of it, you know when being present in the moment.

Kaila: I just feel like if I was still using or whatever and going on these media trips, I might be making enemies because I’ll be like always just making friends, you know or even if I don’t necessarily click with anyone completely. Usually when there is a group of four you really click with everyone if no one is like a crazy [34:20] there is so much intimate time.

But when you are a group of like 20 people it’s hard to get time to click to everyone. And then there are like people who click and kind of hang around each other naturally. But as a low self-esteem non sober person I could turn that into a thing [34:39] over there in like her whatever.

Kiki: I have got to say though it was really hard. There are some difficult times on media trips as we have covered in the past, but like in India everybody was drinking – there are anxiety moments like that.

Kaila: It’s crazy I don’t even, I guess I am not a drinker but I didn’t really notice that.

Kiki: There’s moments there like you know when they are pouring wine, or moments where people are trying to bond over drinks. And I remember when we were in India and we were up by the campfire and everyone had all of that alcohol, and then they kept trying to pour me wine.

Kaila: The best thing to do is just already have a cup, I mean you have given that suggestion.

Kiki: Yes, I was still pretty new. And I am like I know I can be more of an interesting person when I drink that’s what I always think. I always think I am more interesting and more entertaining. Sometimes I am if I reach a certain good point, but then there is a point where it’s like fuck, and that window is like 5 minutes so it’s not a very good window.

Kaila: So I feel like self-confidence is constantly just working on yourself, and not in like a hard like you know I’m trying to improve myself and like beat yourself up through the process. But like treating yourself well and learning to love yourself and learning more about yourself. I feel like I didn’t know myself before sobriety.

Kiki: Absolutely, and there are different ways too. I just wanted to share really quick on ways that you can like how travel actually helps. I mean it help us, becoming travel writers really gave us confidence to be who we really are and not give a fuck about what other people think. One of the things that I found, there are six different things that traveling in general can actually help build confidence.

And one of them is as an introvert it’s difficult as hell to speak up and it makes you speak up. You have to speak up for what you want and what you need when you are traveling in foreign countries, because no one is going to help you to do what you have got to do. So like our India trip it required me to speak up and tell them no I can’t drink – it was tough but I had to do it.

Number two it improves your navigation and your present State of Mind. So when you are traveling you have to be present and you have to see what’s in front of you, you can’t be stuck inside of your head, which inside of your head can be a dangerous place if you have no confidence. So trying to navigate through subway stations in Korea. You know you have to have the app and you are trying to read the sign, you need to know where you are going and what time it’s going here and there.

Kaila: But you were not sober then.

Kiki: No I was not sober; I was this last time though. I was this last time sober, but the time before no that was fucking difficult. I have to share that story in a future episode. But also traveling allows you to push yourself out of your comfort zone. So one of the greatest trips that I ever went on was the Escape Adventure trip in the Grand Canyon. I was miserable for the first two days, but the last couple of days it was the best thing I’ve ever done. It allowed me to push myself out of my comfort zone Beyond, and I realized that I absolutely love being in that place. I like being pushed and I like being uncomfortable.

Kaila: I am the opposite, don’t push me, meet me at the spa.

Kiki: That’s good too, but you see that would be pushing me out of my comfort zone. I would be life holyshit I don’t want to go to the spa. But it helps I mean traveling helps you push yourself to try new things. And it helps keep you fit obviously going around.

Kaila: Oh my God, that has helped so much in Italy, I know everything on site I did not turn down a portion of anything. If I am like how often am I going to eat the most delicious pasta in the world. When I am traveling all bets are off, like there is no dietary restriction, because you know living life to the fullest at that point, but the walking that happened meant that I didn’t gain any weight, I walk so much.

Kiki: You should [38:51] to track you

Kaila: I was tracking myself a little bit, but I was in Thailand with a bunch of New Yorkers everybody was from New York, and they are literally like we are not getting 10,000 steps a day and I was like 5,006 that’s great.

Kiki: You are secretly like an athlete. Do you remember the freaking cycling thing; dude we were both hungover I think. But I remember you, we are fucking flying on that cycle.

Kaila: I feel like I can do things that are not an hour, like an hour is too much. That cycling class is 45 minutes so I can do that.

Kiki: [39:32] to be fair but I was like damn she’s good.

Kaila: But I didn’t force to do athletic things against my will. I was in a swim class for, the swim team, my mom forced me I hated it but I had to do it. And then I was on the cross-country team because my best friend joined but I would purposely get lost. But I was always like the last person – that’s really pretty hard too. And then I took ballet, so I was like forced to be.

Kiki: So you felt that you didn’t like it at all?

Kaila: I didn’t like any of it.

Kiki: But you are good at it though.

Kaila: What I wanted to do was to be a gymnast but I was not allowed, not allowed but I was just never, my mom never signed me up.

Kiki: I did gymnastics but I stopped.

Kaila: It’s supposed to stunt your growth right?

Kiki: Yes, it’s not supposed to be really good for you. A lot of them are really tiny too, but it’s actually beneficial to be small.

Kaila: I actually remember once somebody asked me what I wanted to be – I took ice skating very briefly, and then I was like I want to be an ice skater I think like Kristen or whatever. And then my mom was like that’s such a silly dream in front of people and I was like.

Kiki: Oh my gosh, but I think a couple more things too, like traveling also it gives you the ability to improve your Independence too. The first time I ever went on a media trip by myself was in Austria and I was pretty nervous. I was excited but I was like fuck, like you know we usually go together.

Kaila: Oh my God I love Marco and I love Austria but they have really long dinner. There was like a four-hour dinner one.

Kiki: Do you really go to the same place?

Kaila: I think we went to the same place.

Kiki: Oh my God that was unbearable, and then people were falling asleep. I was sober there but they were drinking wine and like literally falling asleep at the table and we’re like we have to go.

Kaila: We were having conversations like, so how did you get into travel writing [41:46] like we were coming up with conversations.

Kiki: That’s good though we were like, people just stop talking eventually. It was almost 5 hours.

Kaila: Marco wasn’t on all of the dinners.

Kiki: He was there for the first and then he was like I have to go; it was really good though.

Kaila: I have to go run for 24 hours – Marco like there was something with his 24 hour run competition.

Kiki: He runs like 120 miles, I mean how do you do that [42:33] like it’s crazy, but I think the very last thing that I think is really important is freedom to express yourself for who you are, and traveling allows you to really discover who you are by seeing different cultures and understand where you fit in.

Because sometimes if you live in a small town or even a big city. You get caught up in what’s around you and you start to categorize yourself for what’s in your immediate surroundings. But I think there is so much in the world to discover about yourself that you can learn from cultures that you have never been exposed to. I was drunk at this moment, but in Costa Rica – at like the karaoke bar, that was a non-sober trip, but I remember feeling like I sing a song in Spanish in full Spanish.

Kaila: But you can only speak Spanish when you are drunk.

Kiki: Because I think I only have the confidence to do it.

Kaila: Okay we were in Peru and you kept saying Spanish is different here.

Kiki: I was so scared oh my God, it’s so different like being drunk and then being sober you are like holyshit – I feel like everything is always tight when you are like [44:01] but yes traveling was a good experience even to yourself as I discovered that I am definitely afraid to speak Spanish sober. So that pretty much wraps it up. I just wanted to shout out to all of you who if you are going through anything, or facing any type of issues with self-confidence.

Keep working towards your goals and your dreams don’t give up. Sobriety also help sore ton, I know a lot of the times we want to hide it with alcohol or drug use, but just know that sobriety can help a lot. And if you have any questions comment and if you like this episode please leave them, and also if you like leave us a nice rating – we would appreciate it.

Kaila: And subscribe, that might help us too.

Kiki: Definitely, and I hope you guys have a wonderful Thursday. Tune in every Thursday for more episode on From Health Wellness content. Take care, bye.


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